This morning was less than stellar.
I was at the mall, doing some long-overdue Christmas shopping, and had stopped for a tasty caffeinated beverage in the food court. I was reading my latest acquisition, How to Study the Word, and really minding my own business.
Now, I don't know if anyone else has encountered this phenomenon, but I find that random people seem to believe that I read because no-one wants to talk to me, and they must save me from a life of solitude (and books).
The lady at the next table leans over and asks, "What are you reading?"
I show her the cover of my book.
"Oh," she says, and after a long pause states proudly, "I'm an athiest!"
I look at her, smile, say, “that's nice,” and go back to my book. (When I'm reading, I like to read... sue me.)
Now I know that as a Christian, I'm supposed to be ready to talk to folks about religion. I'm really new, and really, really ignorant, and so I'm nervous about "getting into it" with the "other side." Obviously, she wasn't.
"What does that mean?" she asks, "Aren't you supposed to try to "save" me or something?" I put save in quotes, because she actually used finger quotes.
I close my book and ask her if she wants to be saved.
"No," she says, "but I thought that's what you people do."
"Actually, no," I reply, starting to feel annoyed she's obviously trying to get my goat, "only Jesus can save you. I'd be happy to talk to you about Him, but I'm just a guy. He's the one with the power."
She makes a face. (I really can't make this stuff up.) Then she says, "How can you believe that nonsense."
Up 'til this point, I was doing pretty well. She was annoying me, but I was doing a pretty good job of keeping the old, snarky me chained up in the basement - but I'm new, and I feel that what I believe is anything but nonsense.
I close my eyes, take a deep calming breath, and this is what comes out of my mouth:
"How can you believe in nothing at all?" I ask her in response. "As far as I can tell, atheists believe in nothing. No God, no Heaven, no Hell, no afterlife at all. What you do here is all there is, right?"
"Yes..." she starts to make her counterpoint, but I continue, "That has to feel completely pointless. How do you even get up in the morning? No consequences. No reward. Nothing at all. Your bad actions are always there in the background, but that's fine - they don't really mean anything, and your good actions mean just as little. Even at the worst point in my life, I believed in something. I'll be honest, I don't care if you believe in God. You're not ready for Him. But you need to believe in something! I'm just talking baby steps. Believe in an afterlife that you have to earn. Believe in the uncaring Clockmaker version of God. Become a dancing-in-the-woods-naked pagan - their religion has almost no rules at all. At least then, we'd have some common ground to meet on. I could talk about how even physicists agree that something triggered the big bang, the moment of creation - something that existed before the universe. I could talk about the complex machine that is man, and the trillions of little random accidents that would have had to happen for us to form without a Creator, and then we could talk about how evolution and creation are not, in fact, mutually exclusive. There are a lot of things we could talk about, if you believed in something. But with you believing in nothing, and me believing in everything... we got nothin'." I'll admit it, I got a little heated, but I've been dreading the moment when I would have to defend my position, and I pretty much gave her a data dump of everything I'd been thinking about saying when the time came.
She just looked at me. It was like she was trying to figure out how she'd lost that battle, when she was so cool and intellectual, and I was an ignorant Christian.
Finally, she said, "Well, you just don't get it!" grabbed her shopping bags and stormed off.
I let her go.
Did I bring her to Jesus? no, oh no. epic fail on that front.
Could I have done? maybe, but I am a novice.
And that's the thing... I'm new to this. I'm still struggling with the fact that I have friends... good people... who aren't going to be in Heaven with me. I still want to believe that there's something good for them, even if I can't find a way to bring them to Christ. But... if they don't believe in anything? There's nothing I can do for them except pray that they let God in before it's too late.
I'm looking back over this, preparing to post, and it looks harsh. I'm not attacking atheists, or followers of the Clockmaker, or even the dancing-in-the-woods-naked pagans. Some of my very good friends are one or another of the above, and I pray for them every night.. I know some of them will say, " I don't need your prayers. I believe in SCIENCE!" but that's like saying you believe in your magnifying glass. Science is just a tool that helps us understand the incredible, unbelievably complex universe... that God made for us.
I'm not really a very good defender of the faith... yet. But I'm studying, and learning, and improving. Right now, I only have a garden weasel for working in the Lord's garden, but soon, I hope to get a shovel.
In conclusion, I'll paraphrase the indomitable Shepard Book, "I don't care what you believe in, but believe in SOMETHING."
At least then we can start to have a conversation.
OK, this particular woman was *way* out of line, arrogant and rude. I won't defend her actions at all.
ReplyDeleteBut you really don't understand the atheist (or agnostic) point of view, nor that of the existentialist.
"That has to feel completely pointless. How do you even get up in the morning?" I get up each day to fulfill my own goals in life, which I define for myself -- no one has to do it for me. Of course goals and reasons for living are important, but it's seriously arrogant to think that they can only come from your conception of God.
"No consequences. No reward. Nothing at all. Your bad actions are always there in the background, but that's fine - they don't really mean anything, and your good actions mean just as little." Um, no, sorry. Actions always have consequences and rewards, right here on Earth. Bad things I do hurt people, and that hurts me to know it. Good things help people, and make me feel good. Plenty of motivation there. No, there isn't perfect justice, so the consequences might not be what you could wish, but they exist.
Please don't belittle the life that an atheist leads, or characterize it as pointless. In doing that, you fall into the trap of being fully as arrogant and rude as the woman who interrupted your reading.
Whoops! Let me correct this: "Of course goals and reasons for living are important, but it's seriously arrogant to think that they can only come from your conception of God."
ReplyDeleteThat wasn't really fair, given what you said about other religions giving common ground for discussion.
What I should have said is that it is incorrect to assume that reasons for living can only come from believing in a religion or an afterlife of some kind. There are plenty of non-supernatural things to believe in, and to provide motivation.
Obviously, I need to sit down and have an adult conversation with my friends who are atheists. I've shied away from talking religion with my friends for so long that it didn't really come up as an option to me.
ReplyDeleteI honestly apologize for my arrogance.
I've got some thinking (and praying) to do.
What a lousy experience. This is the kind of behavior a lot of atheists complain about receiving from evangelicals, but it's often overlooked that we have jerks in our ranks too. Some people are just out for a fight.
ReplyDeleteGrowing up christian, I had the same misunderstandings that you've voiced about atheism. So I am very understanding of why you have those views. My life as an atheist is nothing like what I would have expected it to be in my catholic youth.
If you would like to have a conversation about belief, let's do dinner.
Rick: The first conversation like that is the hardest! I've got a book (it's Catholic, sorry) called "How Not to Share Your Faith," and I think everyone should think about how NOT to do it as well as how TO do it. I'm sure you're well aware that you're supposed to "speak the truth in love," etc., etc., etc., but it's hard to do when someone pretty much walks up to you and says, "Defend yourself!"
ReplyDeletePretty much what I say now when someone asks me why I believe in the Catholic Church is, "Because it's true." That often turns into, "well, that's your BELIEF," but that is because most people today have been taught to be relativists. You believe what you want, I believe what I want, everything's good. Except that position negates that anything is true. I don't think that nothing is true, and I don't see any point in picking and choosing what quaint thing appeals to me or what novel idea is cool and spiritual. I did at one time, though, so I have a lot of sympathy for the position. Just not much patience. Because once you decide that, hey, there is a truth after all, there doesn't seem to be much point mucking around with things that simply please you aesthetically.
I will be happy to talk all day about what's true and not true, and why I think one thing is true and why another person thinks another thing is true. But there is no point in talking about what people "feel" or, sadly, what many people think the believe when the truth is they haven't given it much thought at all.
shied away from talking religion? gezz richard, I remeber some seriously exploded conversations on more than one occasion :-)
ReplyDeleteyou're doing fine brother, just pray for those who aren't ready to get that way soon.
I'm up for an adult conversation on atheism when we one day finally find ourselves in the same place. I think Grant put it nicely, but I'm happy to talk more with you anyway.
ReplyDeleteMy best friend dated an atheist for a while a couple years ago. Not just an atheist, but an Atheist. One of those folks who not only does not believe in a higher power, but finds it necessary to try to convert the ignorant opiated masses to the widsom of atheism. Like the woman you encountered at the food court, his words stirred within me precisely the sort of gut-level anger they intended to bring forth. i don't mean to imply that atheists are inherently evil. On the contrary, created in God's image, they are inherently holy. But her stab (or interpreted stab) at your faith was probably intended to draw you away from holiness, and toward the gut-level reaction of the sinful man that exists deep within you. That is the duality of man. We are, inherently, simultaneously sinful and holy. If we follow the words of man, we will more than likely tip the balance toward our sinful nature. If we follow the word of God, we rise to holiness.
ReplyDeleteMy friends include Christians, pagans, atheists, agnostics, jews, and hindus. As you said, it is not up to me to convert them to Christianity. It is, however, my job (i believe) to freely share with them the word of God, as we were called to do in the Great Commission. That doesn't mean i smack people on the head with scripture every minute of every day. It does, however, mean that i openly share little bits of scripture in the course of normal conversation. It means that i share little anecdotes about God's influence in my life and the lives of my children. It has taken many, many years for me to fight the urge to stifle such comments in exchange for "politically correct" language to those of different faiths. i still, from time to time, want to kick myself when i realize that i hid my faith so as not to stand out. i sometimes wish i had the fearless faith of my younger daughter, Gillian, who recently told me that she likes to talk to everybody about Jesus, because that means she'll have more people to "hang out with in heaven".
Ultimately, i believe that actions speak louder than words. Right now, in the midst of medical diagnoses that are difficult to swallow, financial disaster, parenting two special needs children, and dealing with a brother who is suffering and slowly dying from Young Onset Parkinsons and has become suicidal, i am general happy and content and full of love. Some might call this attitude insanity. Because, realistically, it is beyond what a human "should" be able to handle. i know, without a smidgeon of doubt, that it is God's grace that gives me peace in the middle of this shit storm. (Yeah, you heard me right. Didn't i already express my disdain for political correctness?) When people hear about some of the things i'm dealing with, and see my shrug and smile, i have only to explain, simply, that God gives me peace and patience. No preachy prosthelytizing. If people ask why i do the volunteer work i do, despite having too little energy and time, i just don't lie. i explain that it's what Jesus calls us to do.
i'm not saying that i've got it right. Sometimes i'm too loud and sometimes i'm too quiet when it comes to my faith. But i always find that when i try to engage in theological fights that draw out gut-level responses, holiness loses. Sometimes, when godly words fail us, the best response is just "smile and wave, boys. Just smile and wave."